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>>Maybe I can add another layer of confusion to this thread, after all I have four different style 2-L’s running in various Alfas. First, here are a few specifics:
2-L Nord in a ’69 Spider:
11 mm cam (Centerline), 10:1 CR w/Motronic pistons, Spica FI, Crane ign, stock exhaust and stock air intake.
2-L Nord in a ’71 Jr Z:
12mm cam (unknown source but lots of duration), 10:1 CR w/Motronic pisions, 40DCOE’s, Crane ign, stock exhaust and air filter system from the old “across the top of the head” Sprint GT (stock).
2-L TS in a ’69 GTV:
stock pistons, stock CR, stock Motronic FI except for K&N air filter, Steck headers w/Magnaflow muffler
2-L TS in a ’65 Sprint GT:
C-B street cams (no VVT), stock pistons, stock CR, 45DCOE, TS coils run through a Steck modified Nisan dist, GTA reproduction air box with a K&N air filter, GTA headers modified to mate to the TS head, 2 ¼” exhaust w/Magnaflow muffler.
First of all, they are all great fun to drive but I’ll make some comments on what they are like to drive and to live with. Oh, all the engines have been dynamically balanced.
The Spider engine is least powerful on the top end (sorry no dyno data) but it pulls very well in the mid range. The idle is a bit rough but it’s easy enough to live with. Mileage is about 17 mpg around town and 26 on the highway.
The Jr Z engine is a pretty rough idler. It stumbles slightly coming off idle but then it goes very well up to about 6500 rpm. I think I could adjust the cam timing and get more top end but this is a street car so I won’t bother. Throttle response is great. One thing is for sure, this one can burn gas, about 16 mpg around town and 24 mpg freeway.
The stock TS in the ’69 GTV is my favorite. It does everything well and it wouldn’t surprise me to find that it has the most power everywhere. It idles well, partly thanks to the VVT, and it pulls very, very cleanly to the rev limit. It also gets 22 mpg around town and 33 on the freeway. I have had this engine on the dyno but the readings were low. I traced the problems to bad plug wires and I haven’t been back to recheck the output.
The 2-L TS in the Sprint GT (race car) doesn’t idle very well but it pulls very well from 4500 to 7000. If it has more bhp than the stock TS, I don’t think it would be much – it’s hard to tell because of the application. I think part of the power “problem” is ignition timing. The Steck dist is at full advance at about 4000rpm. If I time it to avoid pre-ignition at 4000, it needs another 3, maybe 4, degrees of advance at 7000 for max powe. This is with a 1:1 mix of of 91 octane pump gas and 110 octane leaded race fuel. This car has also been on the dyno but, as with the stock TS, the results were unimpressive. However, they were very useful because I was able to diagnose a cam timing problem and track down a bad coil lead. I’ve been considering putting the stock Motronic FI back on this engine just to see how it compares with carbs/mechanical advance distributor.
What would I put in a street car that might occasionally make it to the track? Hands down, a stock TS. The carbureted and Spica FI “slightly tuned” 2-L Nord engines require more R&M to keep running well and they don’t come close to providing the performance of the TS. To get a Nord 2-L to produce similar output to the Motronic TS would mean making drivability sacrifices for normal street use. One of the biggest issues, at least here in CA, results form the available fuel. If you’re going to build an engine for the street, for practical purposes, it has to run on pump gas and that’s 91 octane for us. To get a Spica or carbureted engine with a mechanical advance distributor to deal with 91 octane across the rev range, the CR can’t be much above 10:1. You can go to higher CRs but you have to dial out some the max advance and this leads to less top end power. You could do a 2-L Nord engine with programmable FI/ignition, but there’s a big development time/money hurdle with this approach.
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Bruce Colby
Competition Director, AROSC
'65 Sprint GT (TS track car)
'69 1750 GTV (TS street)
'69 1750 Spider (sunny days)
'71 Jr. Z (special occasions) <<
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Saluti,
